[CosmicFalcon]

-Here's the info on the TBG issue based on what stages it can affect. *= possible but unsure.
--Time Attack
1. Sonic: All stages beyond Hang Castle.*
2. Dark: All stages
3. Rose: None
4. Chaotix: Grand Metropolis, Power Plant.
--Boss Attack: All boss battles except Team battles.
--Score Attack:
1. Dark: All stages (Time bonus)
--Ring Attack: All Team Chaotix stages.

[snapback]5993[/snapback]

Err... for time, Team Rose is affected on all stages, due to invinvibility...and don't you get a speed up too? And invinibility will also help in some boss battles... And it also affects Metal Madness.

The thing about the TBG is that I don't think many will remember which of their times used it and which did not, which makes moving to freestyle hard... we would have to move all times to freestyle, and start fresh on the leaderboard, which will be annoying for those who no longer visit but wish for their records to stay, for those who no long have access to Sonic Heroes, or those who do not keep a record of their own, non-TBG times.

It is as such that I don't think it should be moved to freestyle. Yes it may be an unintentional glitch, but quite evidently it is not always beneficial, and I am sure that faster ways can be found to fill TB gauges without the standstill... to achieve a permanent time stop with Team Dark, you have minimal, if any, time to actually move before you have to start charging up your team blast again. I find it takes about the time of the duration of a team blast to be able to charge fully with the glitch.

Just my two cents on the matter. Pence, whatever.

As for Sonic R, I don't think Grand Prix should be included. TSC promotes using time attack features of games to record times, and I think this is especially important in a racing game. Unless the AI race exactly the same each time you play a GP race, then... yeah.

[SprintGod]

As for Sonic R, I don't think Grand Prix should be included. TSC promotes using time attack features of games to record times, and I think this is especially important in a racing game. Unless the AI race exactly the same each time you play a GP race, then... yeah.

Differences in Grand Prix mode:

• Computer opponents. They rarely get in the way unless you're lapping them, though.
• Shortcuts and boosters that can be activated with rings.
• When you're losing, you can get boots. Useless for course times, possibly useful for lap times. This doesn't apply to Radiant Emerald.

These differences are significant enough to consider tracking it separately. Mainly because of the shortcuts and boosters.
I should also mention that Grand Prix times will always be faster, so failure to include them on the site will result in at least one idiot submitting their Grand Prix times for Time Attack, since the game tracks them both and lists Grand Prix first.

Also, as far as I'm aware, the Saturn version saves the fastest race times without regard to which mode they were done in.

[CosmicFalcon]

Oooh... boots when losing... sounds very useful for lap times.

I retract my earlier statement. Especially seeing as Grand Prix times are faster. o.o

[sonicam]

Uh, I forgot some stuff about Sonic Triple Trouble.


Sonic Triple Trouble Time Attack Stage

There is a hidden stage in Sonic Triple Trouble that isn't played in the regular game. The stage is called 'Time Attack', lol. To play it, you have to press down at the Title Screen until it says 'Time Attack'. Then press Start. You'll be able to chose either Sonic or Tails and you'll then be taken to a Great Turquiose graphic stage. This stage also tracks the centiseconds of you time. I think this stage should be added to the Times Division and the Ring Divsion for both Sonic and Tails.

Removal of Sunset Park Zone 2 for Sonic and Tails

Sunset Park Zone 2 doesn't track your Score at the end of the level since you go straight to Act 3's boss stage. This is making it impossible to submit a score SPZ2 and thus impossible to achieve a total score count for Sonic, Tails and Total. It should be removed from the Rankings.

[Taco]

this gets a HUUUUUUUUGE BUMP

I'll be editing and fixing up this list.

I know there was more though, so if you remember, just let me know

[Spinballwizard]

I think this topic deserves a huge sticky. Didn't it have one before the downtime?

Also, I have my cool little funny suggestions. I brought them up when I originally joined (not like anyone remembers because of the downtime), but especially with the scores and rings entering the main charts, this could be useful. (Actually it could've been added beforehand, because of the Battle scores being added and all.) I'm going to put them in what I think is a good priority, but those with editing privileges can mess with that if they so choose.

I say we need a couple more games added.

Sonic Spinball
- I know I was told that there is easily a nonmaximizable score, but does that not create more competition? Heck, my friend told me of a forum he's on that tracks online-played Tetris scores, which isn't really too different. Naturally, like battle, only scores can be tracked, and there's a huge limit, but we could do everything like:
____ got ____ in Spinball / Scores / (See Following list for tracked scores)

• Toxic Caves
• Lava Powerhouse
• The Machine (or just Machine)
• Showdown
• Bonus 1
• Bonus 2
• Bonus 3
• Multiball 1
• Multiball 2
• Multiball 3
• (Is there a multiball 4? I've never tried to get any one other than the first.)

Now I'm not sure if the GG version is different, but that's how it could work. (Also, Bonus should probably be checked; they may have max values. Your decision if you want to include it, or the game in general.)[/color]

Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
- Again, unsure about the GG Version, but there can be a times division here too. Sure, some of it is luck, but I almost always have a strategy when I play MBM >_>

The only question is whether or not difficulty enters the rankings. I almost never play on anything besides hardest, and the only difference between them is speed (unless there's a subtle difference in the AI which I haven't noticed). Either way, we'd have at least 13 stages, 14 if we wanted to include Exercise Mode. IE...

• Arms
• Frankly
• Humpty
• Coconuts
• Davy Sprocket
• Sqweel
• Dynamight
• Grounder
• Spike
• Pfuzzy Logik
• Dragon Breath
• Scratch
• Robotnik
• (Exercise Mode)

[/color]

Again, all after much debate on whether they should be added. >_>

[sonicam]

Naturally, like battle, only scores can be tracked, and there's a huge limit, but we could do everything like:

[snapback]8106[/snapback]

Sonic Battle Times Division

No, there can be a Times Division for Sonic Battle. My post about that seems to be one of the few posts deleted back before the downtime. When you clear a stage in Challenge Mode with any character, you are given a results screen. This is basically all of your different elements that were accumulated into your overall score for the level. Within the results screen you are told your total time for the battle (since the faster you beat the stage, the more of a point bonus you get). The time is pretty basic and uses the standard timing but leaving out your centiseconds. In fact, IIRC, they don't even use numbers, it says for example "Time Taken: Three minutes and twenty-four seconds." So if you were to submit this, all you'd have to enter is obviously 3:24 for that battle. This could be done for each battle for each character on each level. There are a total of 10 characters, 3 levels each, and 5 battles within each level per character. So that's 5*3 for one character which equals 15 submissions for one character. Then that's 15*10 for all the characters to give you 150 submissions total for the Times Division. That's a lot. D: If that's too much then I guess we could take off Level 1 and 2, but Level 1 and 2 summation scores are in the rankings so it's not really fair to exclude them. I dunno what we should do about that.


Also on Spinny's comments about Spinball and Mean Bean Machine, I really dunno. I don't know if the game is like Tetris (ie. infinite) or has a limit. If it's infinite then I guess it can be added but I don't really see anyone sitting down to play Spinball for a long period of time (besides Spinny himself :o), but if you think it's a good idea, I'll support it. I won't be competing though only because I despise the game. D:


Example of Sonic's charts:

Sonic

Level 1

Battle 1: x:xx
Battle 2: x:xx
Battle 3: x:xx
Battle 4: x:xx
Battle 5: x:xx

Level 2

Battle 1: x:xx
Battle 2: x:xx
Battle 3: x:xx
Battle 4: x:xx
Battle 5: x:xx

Level 3

Battle 1: x:xx
Battle 2: x:xx
Battle 3: x:xx
Battle 4: x:xx
Battle 5: x:xx

Continue in the same fasion for the rest of the 9 characters. That's the SB Time Division in a nutshell.

[yse]

While we're at it, here's two more games I can think of to add:

Sonic Labyrinth
I'm sure sonicam has said enough about this already. I can't remember if it times down to the millisecond (EDIT: only on the time attack level, which is identical to zone 1-2!), but even if not I can't see why it hasn't been added. There's also a time attack level, iirc, a la Sonic Triple Trouble. I might have to bust it out again before it goes up.

IIRC, four levels of four acts each, with one time attack level. Whether or not the boss levels are timed I can't remember.

Seeing as how it would be quite rare in it's original form, you can play it on Sonic Adventure DX.

Sonic the Fighters
Gives you your time at the end of each fight. I'm not sure if you can customise the fact that each fight is best of 3, or the difficulty level. Again, I'll have to look that up. [EDIT] yes, you can change the settings... I suppose the rule would have to be default settings.

Divisions:
vs. Knuckles
vs. Amy
vs. Bark
vs. Espio
vs. Tails
vs. Nack
vs. Bean
vs. Sonic
vs. Metal Sonic
vs. Robotnik

Playable, of course, on Gems Collection, since not many people have the original arcade machine.

[SadisticMystic]

I know that at least Spinball has unlimited potential apart from whatever byte cap it uses.  All you have to do is keep getting the same bonuses.  I remember bouncing around in the Machine, racking up Piston Lights 200x with absolutely no risk involved.  It can certainly go higher.

The Multiball stages are all identical, so it doesn't need to be represented 4 times.  Bonus stages 1 and 2 can be point-scalped as much as you want; 3 can't.

[sonicam]

Ah, yes, Labyrinth. I can't really recall much about it but I think you'd got it just about right, mike. The worlds are Labyrinth of the _____. I can't really recall what they are since I haven't played to game in a very long time. I think they are Sea, Sky, Factory and something else... D: Score can also be implemented in Labyrinth, I believe it cummulates like Sonic Chaos and Triple Trouble. I'm pretty sure Time is kept in standard form without centiseconds. It also increases when you do certain tasks which might make the competition null and void. I think it's abusable to make you have max time or so, I can't really recall well. :(

Yeah, about the Time Attack level for Triple Trouble, I posted that on the "Cleaning up the site" News topic.

[yse]

It also increases when you do certain tasks which might make the competition null and void. I think it's abusable to make you have max time or so, I can't really recall well. :(

[snapback]8110[/snapback]

You mean when you pick up the keys? You get 30 seconds extra time for each key you pick up, but I think that even if you lose them you don't get an additional 30 seconds when you pick them up again. Might require a bit more testing, though.

[sonicam]

Yeah, that's about right. I thought there were other triggers that gave you a time increase, but perhaps not. Yeah, when I can be arsed to play games I'll test it out and see.

EDIT: Also added a sample chart for Sonic's charts for SB Time.

[Rolken]

Aren't there places in Spinball where you can put something on the D-Pad to hold it down, walk away for a few hours and return to massive points? Don't remember any specific places, but if true that'd kinda render rankings pointless (no pun intended lol!!!).

The others I am pro tho.

[magnum12]

If we're going to add a time division to Sonic Battle, should we add a ruling that Emerl's Combo special move is not allowed to be used? Reason: Easily abused 1 move KO technique that cannot be blocked or countered (when you lump your enemies together and hit them all with the move at the same time) and can create arbitralily fast times in this division.

[SadisticMystic]

Only as fast as you can group them and pull it off.  If you want to pick the best moves, and are capable of using it quickly for multiple kills, more power to you.

[sonicam]

Yeah, I say keep the Combo Cards for Emerl in the Time Division. There are far better cards then the Combo Cards when going for time, IMO.

[Aere Alouette]

I think this topic deserves a huge sticky. Didn't it have one before the downtime?

Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
- Again, unsure about the GG Version, but there can be a times division here too. Sure, some of it is luck, but I almost always have a strategy when I play MBM >_>

The only question is whether or not difficulty enters the rankings. I almost never play on anything besides hardest, and the only difference between them is speed (unless there's a subtle difference in the AI which I haven't noticed). Either way, we'd have at least 13 stages, 14 if we wanted to include Exercise Mode. IE...

[/li][li]Arms
[/li]
• Frankly
  
• Humpty
  
• Coconuts
  
• Davy Sprocket
  
• Sqweel
  
• Dynamight
  
• Grounder
  
• Spike
  
• Pfuzzy Logik
  
• Dragon Breath
  
• Scratch
  
• Robotnik
  
• (Exercise Mode)
  

[/color]

Again, all after much debate on whether they should be added. >_>

[snapback]8106[/snapback]

Sounds accurate. Maybe add a score division to that.

[Spinballwizard]

Oops, I thought that the MBM score division was implied. Well, I meant to say that too. >_>

Yeah, I didn't think Spinball would do too much after I posted it...

The Multiball stages are all identical, so it doesn't need to be represented 4 times.  Bonus stages 1 and 2 can be point-scalped as much as you want; 3 can't.

[snapback]8109[/snapback]

Ah, didn't know that. (I'm pretty sure I said that I'd only done it after Toxic Caves. >_>) And yeah, 3 maxes out once you win, now that I think about it, IIRC. So yeah, kinda dumb.

Also back on MBM for a second Exercise Mode wouldn't have a times division as you aren't facing anybody and therefore you can't really be timed.

So, again, if we add MBM we have to decide whether or not to add difficulty to the rankings. As I said, the only difference I've found with the difficulty is the speed at which the beans fall. Since I usually just position them quickly and drop them, the falling speed doesn't have too much to do with it (though theoretically, Easiest would probably be slower than hardest, because it takes longer to get the full thing on-screen).

[yoshifan]

The problem with MBM Scenario Mode times is that the strategy would not only be redundant between difficulties, as was mentioned, but it'd also be somewhat redundant between stages.  Between stages, the only differences are the speed of the beans and the enemy's ability to drop refugee beans on your side while you're setting up combos (and this can be largely overcome with some luck).

And, hate to say it, but I have my doubts about Exercise mode too.  I find it easy to survive at the highest speed (Level 13 and on), and I think the score chart might become more of a competition of how long you can be bothered to play.  However, if no one else thinks this way, then I won't object to adding a ranking for this.

I think score rankings for Scenario mode would be good.  It shouldn't be very luck-dependent because you're going through 13 stages.  Maybe divisions for each difficulty can be justified here, too, because when the beans are faster and the opponents are better, it's tougher to consistently set up good combos, get nice time bonuses, and even survive all the way through.  (I never did manage to get through Hardest without dying.)

[Spinballwizard]

Let's not forget, yoshifan, that it IS still possible to lose in Exercise mode. It happens most often to me if I try to make a huge combo and it fails to click (or I start thinking too much. D: ).

I personally think that times would still be legit, but in the end that's up to mostly Rolk and SM. *shrug* (Then again, even on Robotnik on Hardest, I've beaten him in a little more than 30 seconds.)

Of course, how many times in other Sonic games is a record time dependant on luck? (I'm mostly pointing at EH1 here, where I've never been able to successfully land on the invincibility.)

Heh, I never could finish Hardest without dying... I think the farthest I've gotten was Pfuzzy Logik.

[Bilan]

Of course, how many times in other Sonic games is a record time dependant on luck? (I'm mostly pointing at EH1 here, where I've never been able to successfully land on the invincibility.)

[snapback]8124[/snapback]

That needs timing not luck :(

[sonicam]

Of course, how many times in other Sonic games is a record time dependant on luck? (I'm mostly pointing at EH1 here, where I've never been able to successfully land on the invincibility.)

[snapback]8124[/snapback]

Knux/Rouge in SA2B and Knux in SADX. All dependant on luck. If you have taken countless hours of playing the stages like SM has then more so skill is needed, but luck is obviously an evident factor. I'm sure no one is going to do the same as SM did. D: but that's just me. Casino Park-Rose*, BINGO Highway-Rose* and Casino Park-Chaotix/Chaotix* all relay on luck as well. And yeah, it's more so timing for EH1 than luck.

[Spinballwizard]

Well my timing sucks, so I call it luck. :(

And isn't any casino level rings mission/division (well, besides Casinopolis, but again that's another one of SM's finding every glitch in the game things) based on luck?

EDIT: Actually I just thought of something for Spinball, but I'm unsure how anyone would be able to check it (other than SM playing for hours on end). We could say that all Spinball scores have to contain a time bonus (which bottoms out to 0 after so long).

Yeah, bad idea.

[sonicam]

Sonic Heroes Special Stage Scores

I was thinking that we'd be able to add Special Stage scores for Sonic Heroes. There is a normal summation of elements like in normal stages to give you an over all score so I think it's legit. There is an skill and luck required but what does anymore. D: You cannot select Special Stages from the Stage Select screen so you'll have to get to it the old fascioned way. Grab the Special Key in the stage and get to the Special Stage meaning you won't be able to make much mistakes since you can't Restart it, but I think it's legit. Bouns Challenge should be used instead of Emerald Challenge since Emerald Challenge should end within a few seconds and you'll more than likely get a crap score, spliting them would be redundant too. Max Links could be canditite for competition. Sure it has nothing to do with your results screen nor is it displayed anywhere, but it can be used. When your Link combo ends, quickly pause the game and record your Link number and there you go. I would say add time but the time isn't really displayed on the results screen since it calculate your time bouns instantaneously and your time disappears. If this gets added, a Special division could be made to put Special Stage scores and Link combos. What do you think?

[magnum12]

Sonic Heroes * Score Division:
-This suggestion is merely an extension to the Score Division. This only applies to Team Chaotix* missions (the ones that would be covered under the Team Chaotix* time competitions), but would be useful for completion sake.

[F-Man]

I remember Rolken also said he's fuse the boards and main site profiles together.

[yse]

Okay then. Time to compose the best Master List of site updates I can muster.

GENERAL

• Fuse site/forum profiles
• Apostrophe madness in comments, lollerwhat
• Consider new games being proposed to add to the rankings (Spinball, Mean Bean Machine, Fighters, Labyrinth)
• The missing videos

Sonic Riders

Shadow the Hedgehog

• Ring divisions - divided by Hero/Dark/Normal, or one per level? EDIT: decided, but yet to be implemented
• A few levels have a glitch which can result in arbitrarily low times (Freestyle)

Sonic Heroes

• Team Blast Glitch to be moved to Freestyle EDIT: not looking like this is going to happen... comments for/against plz.
• Special Stages possibly?

Sonic Adventure DX

• Casinopolis Knuckles ring/score - falls under same category as Speed Highway
• Twinkle Circuit - single lap times

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle

• Kart races - single lap times

Sonic Rush

• Time Attack levels - single lap times

Sonic Advance

Sonic Advance 2

Sonic Advance 3

• Unidivision, dammit! And about bloody time too.
• Ring divisions, including rings in Special Stages

Sonic 1

Sonic 2

Sonic 3

Sonic and Knuckles

Sonic CD

• Do Rings have to be collected in Time Attack mode? I think we clarified this already, but just to make sure...

Sonic 3D Blast

Knuckles Chaotix

Sonic 1 GG

• Act 3 Scores
• Remove Sky Base 2 from ring rankings, and add Scrap Brain 3

Sonic 2 GG

• Act 3 Scores
• Act 3 Times - can be worked out from time bonus on GG, except for one

Sonic Chaos

• Sonic Ring divisions are superfluous as you can't exceed 100 rings

Sonic Triple Trouble

• Time Attack level for Sonic and Tails (Time, possibly rings? Don't think you're given a score)
• Remove Sunset Park 2 Score

Sonic Pocket Adventure

Sonic Battle

• Times division (ask sonicam)

Sonic Jam

Sonic R

• Reorder rankings. The new divisions should be: GP (3lap, Flap), TA Normal (3lap, Flap), TA Reverse (3lap, Flap), Balloons, Tag.

Sonic Drift

• Add Single Lap times.

Sonic Drift 2

• Add Single Lap times. Not sure how this is going to work with the tracks that aren't circuits.

Feel free to add anything I forgot, or that you bring up. I'll try and keep up with everything.

[Spinballwizard]

I thought we decided that Spinball probably won't work due to the arbitrarily high score possibility. Even if we do issue a time bonus rule, that's still going to be difficult to figure out the max and prevent cheating.

Shadow rings we were pretty much go on I think... I also am pro Lethal Highway Hero, Air Fleet Dark, and potentially Iron Jungle Dark (a similar level) having freestyle divisions.

I'll need to check my Heroes Special Stages again, but those could be potential rankings-adders. I believe there are times and scores to put, IIRC.

And I like site/forum profile combinatory thingies.

The others I really can't comment on, not competing in them and all.

[magnum12]

Okay then. Time to compose the best Master List of site updates I can muster.

GENERAL

[/li][li] Fuse site/forum profiles
[/li]
• Consider new games being proposed to add to the rankings (Spinball, Mean Bean Machine, Fighters, Labyrinth)
  

Shadow the Hedgehog

[/li][li] Ring divisions - divided by Hero/Dark/Normal, or one per level?
[/li]
• A few levels have a glitch which can result in arbitrarily low times (Freestyle)
  

Sonic Heroes

[/li][li] Special Stages possibly?
[/li]

Sonic Adventure DX

[/li][li] Casinopolis Knuckles ring/score - falls under same category as Speed Highway
[/li]

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle

Sonic 1

Sonic 2

Sonic 3

Sonic and Knuckles

Sonic CD

[/li][li] Do Rings have to be collected in Time Attack mode? I think we clarified this already, but just to make sure...
[/li]

Sonic 3D Blast

Knuckles Chaotix

Sonic 1 GG

[/li][li] Act 3 Scores
[/li]
• Remove Sky Base 2 from ring rankings, and add Scrap Brain 3
  

Sonic 2 GG

[/li][li] Act 3 Scores
[/li]
• Act 3 Times - can be worked out from time bonus on GG, except for one
  

Sonic Chaos

[/li][li] Sonic Ring divisions are superfluous as you can't exceed 100 rings
[/li]

Sonic Triple Trouble

[/li][li] Time Attack level for Sonic and Tails (Time, possibly rings? Don't think you're given a score)
[/li]
• Remove Sunset Park 2 Score
  

Sonic Pocket Adventure

Sonic Battle

[/li][li] Times division (ask sonicam)
[/li]

Sonic Jam

Sonic R

[/li][li] Reorder rankings. The new divisions should be: GP (3lap, Flap), TA Normal (3lap, Flap), TA Reverse (3lap, Flap), Balloons, Tag.
[/li]

Sonic Drift

[/li][li] Add Single Lap times.
[/li]

Sonic Drift 2

[/li][li] Add Single Lap times. Not sure how this is going to work with the tracks that aren't circuits.
[/li]

Feel free to add anything I forgot, or that you bring up. I'll try and keep up with everything.

[snapback]8597[/snapback]

-Shadow: Ring division should be one per level.
-Sonic Heroes: Team Blast Glitch moved to Freestyle.

[Bilan]

^^ Rush TA Single Lap
SA:DX Kart Single Lap
SA2:B kart Single Lap